Oskar J. W. Hansen’s Long-Lost Audio Recording Discovered
This article is the second of a two-part series. The first article on Oskar's mysterious US Navy files is here.
For the past 55 years, an obscure audio recording of Oskar J. W. Hansen's only-known TV appearance has been in the collection of the US Navy archives.
Photo of John Shand, the long-time host of WTVR’s Viewpoint (Courtesy of WTVR from YouTube).
On July 20, 1969—the day of the Apollo 11 Moon landing—Oskar appeared on the Richmond, VA CBS affiliate's public affairs show Viewpoint to discuss science, weapons of mass destruction, his near-death experience, and the Moon landing.
It's a fascinating discussion, made much more so by the fact that the United States military seems to have thought its ideas important.
This 30-minute recording is also significant because it is the only known remaining audio of Oskar's voice, recorded two years before his death. This is likely the first time in over 50 years that anyone has heard Oskar Hansen speak.
I am grateful to WTVR–Richmond for granting me permission to share this file with you. I hope you enjoy it.
Full Audio Transcript of July 20, 1969 WTVR Viewpoint
Announcer
Viewpoint, a searching inquiry into important issues and problems that cause impact on our times. Viewpoint is presented in the public interest by WTVR. And now, here is your host, John Shand.
John Shand, Host
If our setting seems to be somewhat changed, it is because I have given the four seats generally held by four prominent people, to one more prominent man today, and I would have to tell you that our meeting was by chance and that I suggested after talking with the gentleman that he come and talk with me and share with you some of his thoughts.
I should like for you to meet Mr. Oskar J. W. Hansen.
Mr. Hansen is a world-celebrated sculptor. His works are in Smithsonian, on the Hoover Dam, at Yorktown, and he is known throughout the world. He said that his vocation as a sculptor has brought him great satisfaction. He is also a composer and a man of letters, and today, while we will not speak to him as a sculptor, artist, composer, we are on at a time just before we will take with CBS, you on a tour for some 30 hours as to what is taking place in space. And we're going to direct our questions to Mr. Hansen today on his thoughts and theories on space and what space holds and what we're doing in this area.
To some, it may be quite frightening. To some, it may be quite revealing. To others, you might consider it hogwash, but we should like for you to stay with us for thirty minutes and meet this great Virginian from Pantops in Charlottesville.
He wrote this poem, and I wish that I were artist enough to give it its full meaning:
Astronaut
Let me but see the face of Him
Who first conceived that space
In ordered sequence could contain
The many forms of you and I,
A part of Him.
Who ordered thus that I might say,
"This part is flesh, and this is time;
This is my mind, and this its climb,"
But in the end that I might find
My part in Him?
It's a pleasure to have you here, sir. It's a pleasure to have you here.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Thank you. Thank you.
John Shand, Host
You have some very profound feelings about what is taking place in the world today, and in particular, in the world of space and missiles—defensive, offensive missiles. First of all, how do you feel about the missile situation, the ABM, for instance?
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Well, I perhaps should have acquainted you, Mr. Shand, with the fact that I sort of grew up with Dr. Albert A. Michelson, in a way. He was America's first Nobel Prize winner in physics, and he was the one that devised a measuring rod for the universe. He measured the speed of light.
John Shand, Host
So your background is very deep in this?
Oskar J. W. Hansen
So he also was artistically inclined, and in the very latter part of his years, we met up in Chicago. And he would visit me at my studio and I would read with him either in his laboratories at the University of Chicago or at the Crerar Library. So he then began to say to me, "You should be a scientist instead of an artist." And I would begin to say to him, "You should be an artist instead of a scientist!" And so we carried on this way.
As a matter of fact, he would not have achieved what he did in science if he had not been an artist. He found a way whereby nature did not deny her secrets to him as it did to many other scientists because he used nature's own way in disclosing the secrets, and they were the artistic means. And in disclosing the speed of light, he made light itself measure it out to him.
So all that he devised a prism, that guided the arm that let the ground on a plate of platinum, the interferoscope, the grid for separating the light into its various kinds. And he shot a light into that prism, when the arm was working exactly, a light wave apart, there was no light through the prism. No, no flash of light whatsoever. It was as though he was going the terminator on both sides of the Earth and was in darkness. But if it was not moving properly, there would be a flicker of light, and he would know that something was wrong.
John Shand, Host
He controlled the frequency then.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Yeah.
John Shand, Host
How about the ABM?
Oskar J. W. Hansen
The ABM is, of course, a very frightening weapon. And some now say that it is necessary that we should equip ourselves with this enormous setup of frightfulness, which could only, if used, destroy everything that we have or next to everything that we have. So little would be left that I don't think it would be extremely pleasant to try to put the pieces together again.
John Shand, Host
Do you think there is any defense against an offense of atomic missiles if one gets one off first? Is there a defense?
Oskar J. W. Hansen
I don't think so. That's a delusion.
John Shand, Host
There are a lot of scientists who feel the same way you do. Senator Aiken from Vermont, as you mentioned, was a proponent some years ago and now has come out against it. Why?
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Well, because we think about these things as we learn more about them. That's the way of life, is to try to learn something from all the information that comes to us. And more and more information is coming to us as to how these things operate. And we see their effect when they are used. And we come to the conclusion that these things—something that shouldn't have happened to begin with—it was a Pandora's box that should not have been opened.
In spite of all its attractive features of using it to go here and there in the universe and have a look at everything. Sometimes, it's not even so necessary to have a look at everything. One could be very happy, you know, looking at the things that are more readily available. And they say now that we should equip ourselves with ABMs in order to defend something of America, but I don't believe that there would be anything, something worthwhile left to defend if we suffered an atomic attack by multiple ABM vehicles set off in Russia.
John Shand, Host
You talk of one deterrent and that was abolishment. Is this the only way?
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Oh yes, that is always a deterrent. You see, I believe in the Divine Being. I'm old enough I can believe in Him quite simply and directly. And I have a little advantage over some of the rest of you; I've died once.
John Shand, Host
Explain that, sir.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Well, I almost bled to death at the University Hospital up there in Charlottesville. And I died clinically for three and a half minutes. Now, you say that isn't very long, but if you're clinically dead, it's almost too long. It's almost too long, according to the doctors who recover all your faculties again. Maybe I never have. Maybe I changed in some way, so I'm not exactly as I was before I died.
But at least I came back, and I came back with some definite ideas.
I think on a program of this kind, which goes out to a lot of people, that it would be appropriate to explain that just a little bit.
John Shand, Host
Positively.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Yes. I came back with a definite idea about the looks of God. I felt I had met Him face to face while I was dead. And I had a nice little visit with Him where He lives. And with some of my forebears who sponsored me at that meeting. And I had seen the Son seated at His right side. And I had seen Mary, the mother of God, too. And since I am an artist and expressed myself as an artist, this became a compulsion within me to express the likeness of God the Father.
Now, I wanted to express it in a jewel, this kind of a jewel. Now this jewel is a beryl. It's called a Morganite because the first one found was bought by Pierpont Morgan. He had it faceted and put in the Morgan Collection up at the Museum of Natural History in New York.
John Shand, Host
Now can I hold it so the camera can get a tight shot of it?
Oskar J. W. Hansen
It's a rose-colored variety of beryl. Instead of being green like an emerald, or aquamarine like blue, you know, it's rose-colored. It's very beautiful. Now, there were no considerable size Morganites in existence in 1942 when I died. But I kept on working on the idea of expressing what I had learned when I came back to life. I brought it with me. I brought the idea with me. I had never carved a jewel before.
John Shand, Host
And all the facets you've carved.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
And all the facets I learned it's a very technical skill to do that. Now, in 1956, such a jewel was found. And I had the Sculpture of Liberty here at Yorktown, Virginia... And that had taken seven years. And Congress had paid me $159,000, tax-free dollars, so that I had the money to buy the rough out of which to fashion the likeness of God. And I bought it; and I fashioned the likeness of God out of it. I learned how; I pioneered it. And I expressed myself in this medium.
I fashioned Christ ascending above Calvary in the largest mass that I was able to bring out of this rough crystal.
And I fashioned the Mother of God, too.
John Shand, Host
Where are these works now?
Oskar J. W. Hansen
They are in a separate case, in case number one, in the National Jewel Collection in the Smithsonian Institution.
John Shand, Host
In Washington?
Oskar J. W. Hansen
In the same room that holds the Hope Diamond and all the famous jewels in the world, just about. And I assure you that people come there almost on a pilgrimage to see them. People have a great hunger, in our day as well, to look on the face of God.
John Shand, Host
This is a Sunday. This is God's day. Today, man will make its most, I would say, its greatest exploration, probably even greater than that of Columbus, because within hours of now, man will set foot on the Moon.
You have some very definite feelings about these Moon shots and what they mean, and the Moon as it reflects on the Earth, or its powers on the Earth and its movements.
Will you discuss that please?
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Yes. The Moon... As a scientist, I know, and you know—with very little thought —that the Moon's co-existence with the Earth is a very fruitful relationship, that it is responsible for life here on Earth, for biological life and development, and for organic life in fruits and trees.
We would not be the beautiful garden that we are today if it were not for the Moon.
The ocean would not be the fruitful body of water it is, with its currents that purifies everything, if it were not for the Moon and the tides that set into motion. Now, those tides are power; it is the Lord's day, as you say, so it's God's power expressing itself among us, continually, whether we are awake or whether we sleep.
Let us acknowledge it quite frankly.
Now, we have never, up to now, come on the Moon to experience it directly in our bodies. We have given lots of thought to it—the ancients have—lots of fruitful talk, too. We have made use of its power in various tidal projects and what have you, but we have not given sufficient thought of its real meaning to us or what would happen if it was altered in some way, if the Moon was influenced for good or evil. For good or evil.
John Shand, Host
How do you propose that this could be influenced? How can one influence the Moon, sir?
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Well, we have been given the power to do those things, and the Moon is very light compared to the Earth. It's one-sixth the gravity of the Earth. Now, it has a common center of gravity with the Earth. And that center of gravity lies quite deep within the Earth. It's below the crust, below the Mohorovicic Discontinuity. And it's changing continually because the relation of the Earth and the Moon is changing...
John Shand, Host
Right.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
And the Moon's position changes in relation to it.
John Shand, Host
But this has been going on for years.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
It has been going on for as long as we have had the Moon.
John Shand, Host
Right.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
And as a consequence, the Earth's crust has changed in relation to it. It freshens up everything, if you please. And the mountains have risen. And the streams and forests have risen. And any number of things that we take for granted are part of our relation with the Moon, and also our personal feelings towards one another, as you know, have a very large part in our moonstruck ideas on one another and on the Moon itself from time to time. Even at my age.
John Shand, Host
A 77-year-old moonstruck scientist.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Yes, I liked to take my wife for a walk in the moonshine; I even know why.
So if the relation of the Earth and Moon are suddenly changed, we're in for a very bad experience here on Earth.
John Shand, Host
What would be the results if the influence of the Moon on the Earth were to suddenly change? In your theory, please, sir.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
We would be an entirely different planet.
We would not live.
I don't want to refer to something unpleasant, but I think you probably take it very much for granted like I do, because you have it and have to live with it: You said you had a little heart trouble.
John Shand, Host
Right, sir.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Yeah, well, so do I. I have to live with it. Now, my heart trouble is related to the Moon, too, because the heart is a pump. It does its job electromagnetically to circulate the blood within my body, and that applied to my body is a tidal action, very much the same as the circulation of the ocean volume, you know, by the ocean currents around our globe. Believe me, it is. So, you are stimulated or not, also by the Moon. You have an electromagnetic stimulation from the Moon and a relation to the Moon, the Earth's relation to the Moon.
Now my particular study is the Earth's core.
John Shand, Host
The Earth's core.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
The Earth's core. Well the Earth's core—of course, there are two cores, the outer and the inner core—and the Earth's core is the center of the Earth's magnetic field, which is very extensive and includes the Moon and extends way out. So now the Earth's core is in the very business you are in, you know.
John Shand, Host
It's transmitting some signals.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
It's in the transmission business. It transmits. It also, I believe, produces "television" images. It has a recording of everything that happened from the very beginning.
John Shand, Host
From man's beginning.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Not just from man's beginning, from the Earth's beginning.
John Shand, Host
The beginning of the Earth.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Yes, from the beginning of the Earth. Now it uses this information to affect any repairs to anything that happens to Earth.
John Shand, Host
The Earth has survived so many changes. What would be the changes? We've seen the dinosaurs disappear from the face of the Earth. The mastodons. You were talking of in Alaska, in tundra, they are bringing out frozen pieces of flesh.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Yes, and in South America any number of great creatures, you know, the saber-toothed tigers, and the great sloths, and any number of creatures like that. The ice caps were part of the thing that happened. If we would have a change, you know, in relation to the Moon now, we might have the ice cap at the South Pole let loose. And the rays are letting loose now.
There is about five or six feet of slush down there they find upon boring.
John Shand, Host
We have about five minutes.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
And that would let loose and raise the ocean level 350 feet. They've been up there before.
John Shand, Host
Well, that's something you and I wouldn't have to worry about then. Somebody after us would have to worry.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Oh, I'm not so sure of that.
John Shand, Host
We will have to worry?
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Yeah, you're more durable than you think.
John Shand, Host
I want you to make your...
Oskar J. W. Hansen
As a Catholic, don't give me that because I won't accept it.
John Shand, Host
I want you to make your point, sir, in the brief time that we have left on your theory, or your thoughts on the recent Luna shot by the Soviets and what it could mean, coincidental to our approach to the Moon.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Well, they may take a notion to take possession of the Moon as a matter of control of us or the rest of the world, because the Moon can, as I say, be influenced. Now whether it can be properly influenced or wrongly influenced, that's a matter of debate as to how. That's a matter of degree, and skill, and thought, and inspiration from the master of us all.
And now there could be conditions under which God would permit us to influence the Moon, for the betterment of the human race. If through such means He could bring wars to an end, I believe He would permit it.
John Shand, Host
In the time we have left, do you think that we should be on the Moon? Is it right that we should be there?
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Yes, I think it's right that we should be there. I think it's right that we should continue to be there. I think it's right that we should go to the moons of Jupiter. And I think it's right that we should go and visit Mars. I think all of these things are right. But I think that we should bear in mind that we are responsible human beings and that we should not, in any case, attempt to do something thoughtlessly and in a hurry that would bring unfortunate results to our fellow human beings.
John Shand, Host
What could be thoughtless? Dr. Teller's theory of using the Moon?
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Yes, Dr. Teller's theory of using atomic energy just to find out, by sounding, what the Moon was made of. That could be a very fatal thing to do.
I just mentioned a while back that, suppose the Russians took the present moon shot and it was loaded by multiple ABM warheads, atomic warheads, and dropped it in that crack that's right by the landing field that we so conveniently picked up there. And dropped it down there and set it off.
They might even split the Moon in two.
But you don't have to land them on the Moon, you can land them adjacent to the Moon. And by nudging it by atomic explosion, you can lessen or lengthen the distance between the Earth and the Moon.
John Shand, Host
And thus, diminish it.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
And thus you change the center of gravity which exists.
John Shand, Host
And change the influence.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
And change the influence.
John Shand, Host
And this is where the overall change would take place.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
The overall change would take place that could take place that way. Now, it could be a subtle change which, might be beneficial. It could be a too violently changed, which would put us out of business, so to speak. It would be a different Earth, as the Bible says, "A new heaven and a new earth, and all these things would pass away."
John Shand, Host
I want to thank you so much—our time is up, Mr. Hansen—for talking with us today.
I'm going to ask you one day to come back, and we will sit here like this and talk about art and your work as a sculptor and give another facet of the many-faceted Oskar Hansen and talk about what good can be done for mankind through art and your vocation. Thank you so much.
Oskar J. W. Hansen
Thank you. I enjoyed being here with you very much.
John Shand, Host
If you'll just keep that seat for just a moment, I want to tell you that this has been my pleasure.
I hope that you have shared to some degree with me the intelligence of this fine man. There is a very strong possibility that you do not agree with Oskar Hansen, but there is food for thought in everything that he has said.
Before we leave, I know that he wishes Godspeed to our astronauts on this Sunday. We hope that their mission to the Moon will be a beneficial venture and that their return will be safe, and that you and I, along with the rest of the world, will say a prayer for three gallant Americans.
Our guest today has been Mr. Oskar J. Hansen, sculptor, scientist, humanitarian.
This Viewpoint has been presented in the public interest as a public feature of WTVR. For our guest, thank you and good afternoon.
Announcer
This has been Viewpoint, a searching inquiry into important issues and problems confronting us in these times. Viewpoint is a public affairs presentation of WTVR-TV.
